taevachi: (nature)
[personal profile] taevachi
Welcome to Finn Myth community.

I created this community for my texts explaining lesser known Finnish myths, creatures, gods and spells. I am very strict about my texts having proper sourcing for any claim I make: therefore, what I write should be reliable information. I will list sources always when possible.

Art and other stuff like that is okay.

Note also that this is not a community for neopaganism, but more like the historical research on mythology and folklore.

What are good sources?
There's plenty of misinfo out there. It's always quite bothered me... Here are some good sources, though this is not a complete list, of course:
  • skvr.fi: A massive online collection of folk poetry. A primary source, if you will. You can't get more reliable than this.
  • Modern studies and books written by professionals
  • Some older studies and books: It is important to note that while older books have valuable information, there might be newer studies with better explanations or theories. It's good to have a wide view on things.
What are bad sources?
  • Wikipedia: Wikipedia has some pretty bad horseshit on Finnish mythology at times. Of course, there is also plenty of accurate info. That's why it can be difficult to know which parts are true and which are not. You should always have a source other than just Wikipedia.
  • Kalevala: Kalevala is a 19th century work of literature, which was created to match the artistic ideals of the time period. It is not authentic Finnish mythology, or Karelian mythology, or any other mythology. It is a work of art rather than a historical source.
  • Some old books: They're old! There might be newer, better info out there!
And if you are thinking about Mythologia Fennica by Christfried Ganander: It's a good source for poems, bad source for info or explanations! Many of the explanations in the book are simply false, but the poems he collected were very true and real and valid sources.

For any questions, convos, suggestions, whatever, the comment section is open.
taevachi: (nature)
[personal profile] taevachi
A little bit of a sequel to the Kalevanpojat writing. As you can imagine from that post, the topic is very complicated and has a lot of unclarities to it. Now, I'd like to talk about two figures, Kave and Tursas. Who might be Kaleva himself. Or then not. They might even be multiple different creatures.

What is a kave? Who is Kave?
The word "kave" itself means a creature, especially those who cause the waxing and waning of the Moon. It has been also used in more... unclear contexts for multiple kinds of creatures. For example, "Kave woman, daughter of nature" is asked to help a woman during childbirth.

What I want to talk about, however, is specifically the mention of Kave which leads us to Tursas, another creature.

An old poem states (from old Savonia and Ostrobothnia regions):

Kave ukko pohjan Herra,Kave man Lord of the North,
Ikäinen iku TurilasEver Eternal Turilas,
Isä vanha Väinämöisen,Old father of Väinämöinen,
Makais äitinsä kohdusaLied in his mother's womb
Kolme kymmendä keseä;For thirty summers;
Ikävystyi aikojaan,Eventually got bored,
Oudostui elämitään;Grew strange to his life;
Vijlaisi äitinsä kohdun,Slit his mother's womb,
Potkaisi punaista tuota,Kicked that red one,
Sormella nimittömällä,With a nameless finger,
Vasemmalla varpahalla - - -With a left toe - - -
Päästi sotamiehen miekkoneen,Released a warrior with his sword
Satuloineen orihin,A stallion with a saddle,
Kupehesta kunottaran,From the root of a beauty,
Lapsen vaimon lappiosta - - -A child from the [?] of a wife - - -


















Well, here it would clearly state, Kave and Turilas, the same person, is the father of Väinämöinen, who was born like described in the poem. However, it's not necessarily that simple.

First of all, the poem could just as well be describing the birth of Väinämöinen himself; after all, it's pretty common in stories for him to have been born already as an old man. And isn't Väinämöinen supposed to be Kaleva's son? So maybe Kave here just means Kaleva. Or any creature, and is not important at all as a word or name.

We probably need to look at the other name used then.

Who is Tursas?
Tursas, Turilas and Meritursas all seem to refer to the same... thing. The word very possibly comes from the Germanic þurisaz, meaning a giant. In that case, it doesn't even have to be a name. It can just mean any giant, just like Kave can be any creature. In this sense, Meritursas would specifically mean "sea giant".

Though isn't it quite fitting that Väinämöinen's father is called a tursas, since Kaleva is supposed to be a giant after all! Much to consider here.

Now, I want to tell you more about Tursas in depth. Whether he is Kave or Kaleva, one person, or a name for multiple giants... Let me explain what he/they have done in poems. In addition to the one I already explained above, of course!

The Great Oak
There is a story collected from Kainuu/Cajania region stating: There were four maidens and three men, who reaped meadows. Then someone from the North arrived, named Tursas. He is also called "lappalainen", which could mean Sámi, or it could not mean that. But it's a possibility. Other poems also just say that he came from the north, with no mention of "lappalainen". This Tursas burns down all the reaped hay, which of course turns into ashes. These ashes are then sowed, causing the growth of the Great Oak.

So tall it was, it reached the skies and prevented the clouds from moving and the Sun and the Moon from shining. Because of this, people are not able to farm or fish, and thus want to cut down the oak. A tiny man rises from the sea with a golden axe and cuts the oak down. Pieces of it fly around, and out of those, an evil creature creates spears. These spears are the origin of stings (sudden sharp pain).

Details from alternate poems of the same story include: the ashes being sown in Northlands, making the tree similar to a pole holding up the sky dome. Or maybe a world tree of sorts. It is also said that sticks from the tree fall into the underworld lake, and from those, the painful spears are made of. It is also also said in one of them that the man who cut down the tree also came from the North.

Bonus: In a poem collected from an old Finnish diaspora community in Norway (they originate from Savonia), it was in fact Tursas who cut down the Great Oak and set the Sun and the Moon free.

The Nine Diseases
Once again, from the Kainuu/Cajania region. There was a maiden from the North, a beautiful one at that, who didn't let anyone become her husband. This maiden is likely Louhiatar, a haltija or goddess whose name refers to lovi (the trance state of a shaman). It is then that tursas or Meritursas arrives and gets her pregnant. (Very bad to have children out of wedlock, of course.) She gives birth to ten children, nine of them boys and one girl. The various sons she names after diseases; thus, she has given birth to these diseases themselves.

I will point out that in some versions of this poem, the maiden becomes pregnant when she jump into the sea, and this is when Meritursas makes her pregnant by using waves.

The War God
According to old writings from the 1500s to 1700s, Turisas is often mentioned as a god who "gives victory in war". However, this does not appear in old poems. It is said though that in southern parts of Finnish Karelia, it was believed that Turrisas was haunting and banging the drum before the arrival of war. It is also also said that "Turilas" was a giant. So take this as you will.

Some have thorized based on this that Tursas would be the same as Norse Thor or Tyr, but modern research does not support this. As I already said, it is now thought the word is loan from Proto-Germanic þurisaz ("giant").

Afterword
"Iku-Turso", as he is often called, is seen as a sea monster or a war god sea monster. In reality, I find him way more interesting! He is clearly a giant, for starters. But is he only one giant? Is he Kaleva, the father of Väinämöinen, born in full battle gear? Or is he a separate entity from the Tursas who caused the growth of the Great Oak? What about Meritursas, he is in the sea and causes the birth of various diseases, are they the same?

When speaking of Väinämöinen's father, he is not portrayed negatively. However, in the other two stories, the Tursas is at times spoken of with negative terms. Once again, something to theorize about, with no clear answers.

Maps to show the locations where the poems are known from
Red border denotes the region the poem is from when the specific location isn't known.



taevachi: (tea)
[personal profile] taevachi
In a lot of mythologies and folklore around the world, incest is a common trope. Common, and accepted at that, when it comes to the many different gods and pantheons. Siblings have children with each other, other relatives have children with each other... And does it really matter when they are more like personifications of natural phenomena than actual people? On the other hand, you also have the history of various royal and noble families practicing incest in order to manipulate society's and families' power dynamics.

Sometimes you also have discussions about the incest taboo, if it's natural or how historical. Here, I have a poem found in Finnish, Karelian and Ingrian folklore which absolutely portrays incest as a horrible, vile thing.

I will translate most of the poem here with explanations; I will not be translating every line. Due to Finnish folk poetry all being oral tradition, they often repeat the same thing in different words in order to make it easier to remember. There are also lines that I simply do not understand due to it being old or dialectical words unfamiliar to myself. So this is more like a... translation and explanation at the same time.

From what I was seeing, it seems that this poem was widespread in the east. The places of collection, as well as dialects used in the many different versions, seem to point to Savonia, Finnish Karelia (= West Karelia), as well as East Karelia north of Lake Ladoga, and Dvina. It also seems that the poem had spread to Ingria very widely with the Savonian and Finnish Karelian migrants. Ingrian Finns are a Finnish diaspora in Ingria (now known as Leningrad Oblast). This diaspora came to be when Sweden got the hold of Ingria in the 1600s. Two groups of Finns started moving to Ingria, and together they make up the Ingrian Finns: savakot (their origin from Savonia) and äyrämöiset (their origin from Äyräpää, Finnish Karelia). They are not the same group as the Izhorians, also called Ingrians, who speak the Izhorian language (not Finnish, although the languages are related), who are indigenous to Ingria. The groups were also separated by religion: Ingrian Finns were Lutherans, while Izhorians were Orthodox. And are. The Ingrian Finnish diaspora is mostly gone now thanks to Stalin's genocide on them, as well as many of their descendants having moved to Finland or Estonia after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Long explanation that's not really connected to the poem but surely it is useful historical information. So, there are many different versions of this poem that use different words. The one I am using here is the oldest written example of the poem, written down in 1786 by Kristfried Ganander from an unknown area. I know people have their criticisms of him, but the reason why I picked this poem specifically is: 1) It's the oldest version written down, 2) It is clearly in Finnish, not in the Karelian or Izhorian languages, for example (and this is about Finnish folklore specifically, not the others), 3) It is also clearly written in the Savonian dialect of Finnish, suggesting the Savonian origin of this version.

A final note before getting to the poem: It seems that most poem collectors avoided writing this poem down for centuries due to its topic.

Explanation of my markings: Normal text is a direct translation; italics is but an explanation; in parentheses is a non-literal translation of what is happening.

Poika tuima Tuurittuinen,Son grim Tuurittuinen,
lapsi köyhän Keyretyisenchild of the poor Keyretyinen*
*Smith Köyrötyinen, who also held Soini as a slave
otti korjasan kodasta,
saaninsa savun seasta,
(took his earnings from midst the smoke in his home),
läxi vjemähän vetoja,
maan rahoja maxamahan.
(left to pay taxes).
Löipä virkkua vitalla,
heitti helmi-ruoskasella,
(whipped his horse),
hepo juoksi, matka joutui.the horse ran, the journey went forward.
Yhty nejjosten kisaan,
morsianten mystärihin
nuorten neitosten kisahan,
pjenten pijkasten parihin
(Joined maidens in their play)
- Nouse neito korjahani,
rikosa rein perähän!
("Maiden, get on my sleigh!")
Neito varmoin vastaeli:The maiden said with confidence:
- Tulkoon tyhjä tyynyllesi,
tauti taljasi alallen!
"May there be nothing on your pillow,
a disease under your hide!"
Poika tuima TuurittuinenSon grim Tuurittuinen
avasi rahaisen arkun,opened his chest full of money,
levitteli lippahia
lijkutteli lippavaa,
vakautti vakkoa
Korjasta kohottelexen,
(keeps showing off his wealth)
noita tuolta näyttelööpi
kultasuita kukkaroita,
veitsiä hopiapäitä,
tinasuita neulikkoja.
showed them around,
purses with golden mouths,
knives with silver heads,
needles with tin mouths.
- - -- - -
Piti pijjan pistyrinnan,Kept the upright-breast maid,
makais sisaruensak,lied with his sister,
lannutti emonsa lapsencurbed his mother's child
makaisi omaisen emäisen lapsenlied with his own mother's child
Mik oli käsi kintahasa,The hand with a glove,
oli ohjisa orosen;held the reins of the stallion;
mikä käsi kinttahata,the hand without a glove,
käsi oli neitoisen nisussa
neitosen malussa
the hand was on the maiden's breast
?
- Mistä sinä sukuisin,"Which family are you from,
kustapa sukuperäsin?what is your family origin?
- En ole suurta sukua:"I am not of a great family:
tytär tuhman Tuiretuisen,a daughter of the mean Tuiretuinen,
lapsi kehnon Keiretyisen.a child of the shoddy Keiretyinen."
Poika tuima TuurittuinenSon grim Tuurittuinen
iski kahta kämmentänsähit his two palms
kuin on kahta kalmannosta:like there are two from death (?):
- Voi minun polosen pojan,"Woe is me, wretched son,
jo pidin sisaryeni,there I took my sister,
makaisin emoni lapsen!bedded my mother's child!
Lähen taiteni pakohon,I will escape,
piilojani pijlomahan.(to hide this vile act".)




taevachi: Nahida from Genshin Impact (Default)
[personal profile] taevachi
In this post, I wish to tell you about some of the most important but also the most mysterious figures of Finnish and Estonian mythology, the Sons of Kalev(a).

Who the hell is Kaleva, Kalehva, Kalevi, Kalev? Who knows. Theories say that he was an ancient giant or king. Some kind of original ancestor figure. Many things have been named after him, like Kalevan miekka ("Kaleva's sword", Orion constellation). He himself doesn't actually appear in Finnish mythology or do anything - the ones who do are his sons, Kalevanpojat.

This also appears in Estonian mythology, where Sons of Kalev are important. Ancient castles in Estonian are called "Beds of a Son of Kalev". Clearly, the concept is so old in mythology that it goes back to a time before the different Baltic Finnic ethnic groups had split off from each other. They all have their own things later attributed to these figures, however. In this post, I am talking about Finland specifically. Not Estonia, not Ingria, not Karelia. Please make a note of this. Other versions of these mythological figures exist in other regions. This is about Finland only.

It has been said in older writing that there were 12 sons of Kaleva. However, no list of all of them exists. There is one old list, listing six, and the rest are speculation. Of course, this also kind of goes into the area of regional differences: Couldn't a Son of Kaleva be anyone the local community decides to make so?

The divinity of these figures is also interesting. They are not normal humans, as they have supernatural abilities. But they are not worshipped gods either...right? But some of them are very respected to the extent that they might as well be gods, or semi-divine at least. While others are simply regarded as giants, even troublesome ones at that! There is even a possibility that a god got kind of... downgraded to a Son of Kaleva eventually. But is it really downgrading when these sons can still be so respected, even seen as the original ancestors? Who is more respected, gods who are prayed and sacrificed to, who are truly nothing but personifications of natural phenomena? Or legendary giants who are respected and their deeds told forwards in heroic stories, as actual persons instead of personifications?

The arrival of Christianity adds its own twist to the mix. Maybe... they were gods who were "downgraded" to giants due to outside influence? Although I am personally a bit sceptical of this since it would imply being a personification is somehow superior to being a person. Historian Aulis Oja theorized that the term, Son of Kaleva, itself could've originally meant a high class warrior. If that's the case, and even if it wasn't, no wonder it's difficult to draw a line between an ancient king, warrior, giant or god.

So, who are these Sons of Kaleva then? The ones we know the names of, even in theories? I will thoroughly explain!

Generally

Generally about the Sons of Kaleva )

Hiisi/Halli

About Hiisi )

Soini/Kalkki/Kullervo

About Soini )

Liekiöinen/Lieköinen

About Liekiöinen )

Kihovauhkonen


About Kihovauhkonen )

Ilmarinen


About Ilmarinen )

Väinämöinen

About Väinämöinen )

Joukahainen

About Joukahainen )

Afterword

This is my big list on all our known Sons of Kaleva, whether they be giants, warriors or gods. It is also a different matter to talk about giants in general, as there are so many more stories and concepts. However, I think this is enough for now. It could be so that I discover more information later, in which case I will edit this post. I will mark all edits (except typo fixes). Thank you for reading!

Profile

Finnish Myth Central

May 2024

S M T W T F S
   12 34
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031 

Syndicate

RSS Atom

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jun. 13th, 2026 04:14 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios